Or just inflate enemy ACs by a point or two. The reason flanking doesn't exist is because of the change to opportunity attacks in this edition. Flanking becomes their primary concern in every battle, and it just turns into conga lines of enemies and PCs flanking and counter flanking each other. I agree, it's really annoying. Archer goes first and shoots the Bugbear. Yup the more I hear about pf2 the less I find it interesting . Normal. So at best I would be using a class ability to NOT get two d20 rolled on an attack against me. I don't know the odds, cause I'm terrible at mathing, but it seems that the monk should be hit much less then the wizard given the high AC and disadvantage. Zizzle. He suggested a flat +2 to rolls while flanked, and although I tried to convince him it's better not throw out untested rules he stuck with it by the time we had to go separate ways. Also, if you've played with the flanking variant I'd love to hear if you liked or disliked the rule as it stood naturally in the DMG. Therefore, Advantage is not quite a given as in the DMG. 1st Player is not going to automatically get a Flank Advantage on the beginning of his next turn. I really dislike the flanking rule as well. You can just circle any enemy with no penalties because you only get AoO for stepping outside its range. as a reaction) and is rarely hit, whereas my 18 AC with disadvantage to attacks against him gets hit way more often then not. Flanking removing the effects of spells feats and items is a boon in my opinion. Stabby stab with Advan and Sneak Attack. Advantage/disadvantage is the equivalent of +/- 5 on a roll. A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future. It renders a lot of spells and class abilities redundant if everyone has advantage anyway, and I'm not a huge fan of that, but perhaps it would be better with less than 5 players! There is almost never a reason to not move around behind a creature. level 2 This was an essential aspect of the gameplay of Rogues and melee classes during 3rd, 3.5, and 4th edition. On the next round, the Flank would have to be set up again: 1st Player gets into (or remains in) position and attacks (without Advan). Things have changed with flanking 5E, however. Most melee range heroes enjoy a defensive ability for that 'oh shit!' 5e doesn't need flanking. Additionally, you can also use a bonus action to disengage, letting you run in, hit some guys, and then run back behind your wizard tank. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. See, this is why there isn't flanking in 5e. - Larian Studios forums. Essentially your AC is +5 whenever you use dodge. I personally would not hand out advantage for something as easy to get as flanking in 5e, advantage/disadvantage is something I give out just a couple times an encounter not every round. The PCs must declare they are making a coordinated attack. 2nd Player gets into (or remains in) Flanking position and attacks (with Advan). There are no flanking rules as of yet. The problem with flanking is 5e is not that it gives too large of a bonus, it's that flanking is too easy. Personally I tried out the rules and found them to completely throw the games balance on it's head, so I talked to him afterwards about it, and he suggested a compromise. The Wizard has a 19 AC (with some shield spell that increases it to 22?/23? This has not come up in my game yet. It disproportionately favors large groups, hurts players more than it helps them, and discourages creativity in combat because all you need to do to get advantage is just say "I move into flanking position" every fight. Thread Tools. A creature can’t flank an enemy that it can’t see. I thought I was clever, when I poisoned my PCs.. Nope! Dungeons & Dragons 5e Tutorial "Optional Flanking Rules" www.tabletopping.net www.twitch.tv/table_topping NEED ANY D&D BOOKS OR ANYTHING FROM AMAZON? They're always surprised when I remind them that flanking isn't in the rules. Back to Main Page → 5e Homebrew → Rules Any movement within someone's melee range triggers an attack of opportunity. A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. Thanks all. Flanking 5e. The combat advantage meant a lot to the class builds, so there was a lot of movement and shifting on the grid to get your miniature/token in the perfect spot to cause maximum damage. My players have internalized flanking as part of how they play their characters. When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. Apr 7, … Let's say the PCs are engaging a Bugbear and his two pet wolves. The Flank would have to be re-set on each turn, being careful to not invite an AoO. Combat Facing :: d20srd.org. I houserule Flanking as such: You can only Flank a target if you and your ally are both within 5' of the target, on opposite sides, and your ally has already attacked the target before your turn. Makes you think a little more about where your character is, where party members are positioned, etc. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. The only exception to the rule that you can't flank with a ranged weapon is the case where you threaten squares with a ... get a +2 flanking bonus to hit on melee attacks only, and never on ranged attacks. It makes getting advantage way to easy, it is lazy, it makes certain monster abilities like pack tactics pointless, in many ways it is just horrible. Flanking only functioned in 4e because of A) strict opportunity attack rules, B) 4e's +2 bonus, which is a much smaller bonus than 5e's Advantage. Hey All: I've recently started playing a 5th edition game as the only melee player. Mar 5, 2017 Category Icon Basic Rules This section contains the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules and the rules in the SRD, released as part of the Open Gaming License. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Except Charging in 5e kind of does look like the 4e one... and that is where it is called a charge Which exactly proves my point. We've included lists of all the rules, spells, monsters, classes, and items for you to peruse and quickly reference during your games. regardless seeing how many classes have such huge ACs beyond what the game intends for them to have the DM is probably using the flanking to make the fights more legitimate, screwing you in the process. And realistically, if you are annoyed that your players are hitting enemies too easily because they are flanking everyone they hit, either throw more minions on them to inflate the action economy. Dive in and start playing today! I'd stick with the advantage over +2 though. * The Rogue cannot just zip in and make an attack with Advan (granting Sneak Attack) just because he suddenly realizes the Archer and Mage lit up the same target on the same round before he went. My DM uses flanking rules and it's the first time I've played with them. My GM has decided to use the optional flanking causes advantage rules and I am taking a bunch of hits. Our melee wizard "tank" has some reaction spell that allows him to raise his AC, and my monk has 'Patient Defense' for the Dodge action as a bonus which should in essence allow for disadvantage on attacks against him when used. One rule that was deprioritized from the earlier renditions of D&D was flanking: a rule which gave a small attack boost to two characters on either side of an opponent. Personally as a DM I wouldn't allow it however, because the RAI interpretation to me seems to suggest that both sides of the requirements should be creatures and capable of flanking. Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. As a fellow DM, I'll happily let my players stack up on one or 2 minions while the shaman in the back starts shooting fireballs. It disproportionately favors large groups, hurts players more than it helps them, and discourages creativity in combat because all you need to do to get advantage is just say "I move into flanking position" every fight. Core DnD Rules combat is garbage. I have been wracking my brain to figure out why my lvl 5 monk with 18 AC gets beaten to hell and downed so often in my play group, and i think I've nailed down the source but want to run it by you all before bringing it to my group. Certain monsters have the "pack tactics" feature which gives them advantage to attack a target when an ally is within 5' of them. Yeah bud, go ahead and give me an ultimatum. You're starting from a position that 5e charge must be the same as 4e charge. Honestly, flanking in 5e is just a bad rule in general. Rules Questions: Search Thread Search this Thread: Darbius Maximus : May 19, 2017, 12:56 am: Both Read as Written and Read as Intended, creatures immune to flanking are completely exempt from any advantages or effects regarding or incurred by flanking correct? Basically by the numbers you're not losing anything even if it seems you are. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. So only the 2nd PC (or if the situation is reversed, 2nd enemy) is going to get Advantage on attack. D&D 5E A Simple Flanking Rule, What Do You think? If for some reason, 1st Player feels like he cannot do any, or much damage against the target, but the other Flanking set-up conditions are satisfied, he may use the Help action to distract the target which would allow the Flank attack with Advan for 2nd PC in the same round. I honestly have no idea how good of an idea this is. But in that case then you may have heard your players bring up flanking. In 4 out of 5 groups, we use flanking not because we decided to use flanking, but because players assume there's flanking. My First House Rule for DnD Basic (5e) Grappling follows a progression. Honestly, flanking in 5e is just a bad rule in general. Flanking in other editions meant you gained a bonus to hit and combat advantage. The penalty to notice things in or beyond your rear area is -5. Sneak Attack and Flanking Ruling. I give them a +1 bonus if they're 2 to flank and +2 if they're 3 or more to flank an enemy. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. Reply. Flanking just adds an extra layer of frustration and headache. Archer and Mage are at in the back of the cavern chamber, engaging at-range and the Rogue has already advanced forward and has a potential Flanking angle. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I think it's fine, it makes movement very strategic. Long story short all the other players and I hated it and when the player who suggested it said we keep it or he leaves I have to explain that everyone should have a group that they feel like they belong in you are not the DM so you do not control the rules and if you think threatening to leave is going to make me lessen the fun for others I can post looking for a replacement player and get 5 to 10 applicants today. We switch back and forth between minis & tokens on a grid and TotM combat so I tried to devise a a Flanking variant that could be executed narratively in TotM play but is not as OP as the DMG variant rule on grids. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Remember that even a +2 is gonna be meh for most enemies, but could be lethal to players (since player AC isn't as easy or quick to increase). I am DMing a game now and one player threw a fit to use these rules. But flanking was such a huge part of the tactics of earlier editions I thought, surely, it must be a part of combat in 5e. I'm glad that worked out! The penalty on Spot checks in or beyond your flank areas is -5; on Spot checks in your rear area, it’s -10. ;). Rogues get this on their Sneak Attack, too. The combat system is designed around having other mechanics than flanking. Also, the 2nd ranged attack is just a standard attack. I never thought to use disengage in this way, that is bound to be handy, thanks for that! It's an optional rule tucked away in the DMG rather than in the core RAW (Rules as Written). With that in mind, here’s my variant rule for flanking. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Home Collapse All Spell Points. But advantage negates disadvantage anyway.. Mkay?" A creature also can’t flank while it is incapacitated. Without those, it's too easy to get and too beneficial. Fifth edition only has an optional rule that conveys advantage, but that can be too strong at times (and not strong enough at others, if someone is surrounded by five foes) and involves another dice roll. Bad guys care less about friendly fire. If you win a contest of Strength (Athletics) vs. Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics), you may move one level up in a progression from Grappled to Restrained to Incapacitated to Paralyzed. I feel like at the point where someone threatens to leave the group if they don't get their way, they should just leave then and there anyway. Rogue can still move in and attack from those same ranged-attack angles, but the attack will not have Flanking Advantage and not grant a Sneak Attack bonus (unless some other condition would grant Advan & Sneak Attack). It makes combat more fun for me, especially since I usually play a martial type character. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. Illithid Pureblood – A new Homebrew race to explore; Why the Adventuring Day is important, and how to hit 6-8 Encounters Post: "5e Flanking House Rule Concept" specifically for the game Dungeons & Dragons Online. Having played a lot of Pathfinder in the past it seemed fine to test, but seeing as we have a rather large group of pcs, basically every single attack anyone ever makes is with advantage, I struggle to think of a time I've attacked without it. Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can’t flank an opponent. A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future. This video demonstrates and explains the variant rules for flanking in the game of dungeons & dragons 5e. Not trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e. So I’m going to be DMing this Sunday, and one thing I want to introduce into combat is a quick and easy flanking rule that conveys some of the danger of being outnumbered in combat. It does not meet the Flanking criteria and does not get Advan (unless some other condition would normally grant it). Now, I don't plan on changing how I'm running our current campaign at all. With this variant system, a character who has the Spellcasting feature uses spell points instead of spell slots to fuel spells. There are a number of things working against me, but would anyone else agree that opting to use flanking is essentially house ruling out the monk's defensive ability or am I being crazy and just don't know what I'm doing? I can always get more players. Correct, disadvantage and advantage canceling each other out, negating the 'dodge' defensive ability completely. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. FLANKING. Results 1 to 18 of 18 Thread: Alternate Flanking rule. Big changes from 3.x (and possibly 4e? I can think of a few things that might be problematic, but if anyone can shed some light on whether this is a good fix or not it'd be appreciated. I said we would try it for a session. Special. dave2008 Legend. But they love it, so I just go with it too. *But not necessarily at the beginning of the round. mage armor 13 +1 magic item ( maybe) and a 20 dex? Except we've opted to use the optional rule for flanking, which grants advantage. ): Moving inside a creature's reach does not provoke AoOs If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Last edited: Apr 7, 2020. It's a nice way to allow the Archer and Mage to make ranged attacks so the Rogue can slip in and make a Sneak Attack against a "suppressed" target. The D&D 5th Edition compendium contains all the rules and information that you need to run a 5E fantasy game using the world's most popular roleplaying game system. Adding flanking as an additional mechanic just messes things up. Barbarian goes next and splits Wolf 1 in twain. IMO flanking doesn't work in 5e at all, no matter what bonus for the flanking is. Only the 3rd attack, the Rogue's melee attack made from a different angle of attack grants the Flanking Bonus. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. Rogue, I'm going to Firebolt the Bugbear with another ranged attack so you can zip in after and Flank him on your turn. Fair facing house rules for 5e - Role-playing Games Stack ... 5e Flanking Dmg - hcrenew. Whether your opponents' disadvantage is negated or your opponents are given advantage from standard it's still the same bonus. I suppose you could rule that the Rogue could use a ranged attack under the same circumstances (3rd ranged attack in the same round vs the same target, made from a different angle of attack from the first two) and still get Flanking attack with Advan and Sneak Attack. Cookies help us deliver our Services. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. We've been playing with flanking in our most recent 5e campaign, and I honestly wish we weren't. Mathematically Advantage is equal to about +3.3 bonus. The high AC characters are getting hit harder just as well. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. Our bear-form druid has the benefit of additional health from shifting into bear form which is essentially a temp HP pool. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Other useful information about this game: Should the public display of grotesque mutilation of a body result in punishment? Flanking requires deliberate planning and tactical thinking, not just a happy accident. Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking. what am I missing here? ... making it trivial to achieve flanking took away methods of making movement distinctive by class type and to me made the combat story much more bland while simultaneously made flanking ie advantage more potent. You will have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. D&D 5e/Next; Alternate Flanking rule. 5e doesn't need flanking. I'm in a game where the DM wanted to use the variant flanking rules in the DMG. Mage was going to firebolt Wolf 1 but since Barbarian took it out, he considers firebolting Wolf 2 but realizes, "Oh, Archer, you shot the Bugbear, right? 5e is not a tactical game in the slightest. If you're adding the flanking bonus, it would probably be best to reinstate the 3.5 style opportunity attacks into the system as well. When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.. A fighter may select Combat Awareness as one of his fighter bonus feats. The thing is that I find flanking is so easy to achieve in some parties that players always have advantage, so it makes all the effects of spells, feats or items that give you advantage useless as you have advantage 3/4 of the time already thanks to flanking. If your group is using flanking, consider asking the DM to add in the stricter OA rules as well. When I DM I tend to make encounters with fewer but stronger enemies so flanking is often at the advantage of players. Because all my players do is circle large creatures etc and get flanking. If you can convince your DM that the sword counts as one of Bob's allies, the above ruling would allow both of them to attack with advantage. Also, flanking seems to be intuitive to players. One way to modify how a class feels is to change how it uses its spells. When two allied creatures are within 5 feet of an enemy creature and one of the allied creatures makes a melee attack against that enemy, the other allied creature can use its reaction to grant advantage on the attack roll (before the roll is made). In fact, the line itself doesn't even imply the second part: it's just that nothing else in the rules does give ranged attacks a flanking bonus to hit, so you can't get one. This is why I use old-school zone of control rules. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Echo Knight Flanking (& Other echo based shenanigans ... Flanking: A Side View – ThinkDM. The bard that replaced him is a freakin' awesome young lady! On the defense, you make a similar check, Dexterity or Strength vs. Not too harsh, not too lenient. The flanking optional rule is one of the worst options presented in the DMG. You take no -5 penalty on Spot checks to notice things in or beyond your flank areas. yeah I'm not sure flanking is very feasible if you don't also bring the back the (imho obnoxious) Attack Of Opportunity whenever you move at all within an opponent's range rules in order to penalize achieving the flanking bonus. Trying to find a version that suits well. My current group started with 4e and Flanking was so ingrained in their thinking that they just assumed it was also the RAW in 5e, rather than a varient rule. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. A Large or larger creature is flanking as long as at least one square or hex of its space qualifies for flanking. Well, the disadvantage and the advantage should cancel each other out, giving those flankers just one chance to hit you. The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. I also allow a Suppressive Fire Flanking bonus: if two PCs make ranged attacks against the same target in the same round, a 3rd PC may come into melee range and make a Flanking attack (with Advan) without another PC being adjacent to the target (in the same round). In addition, Advantage and +2 are hardly equivalent, even in 5e with it's bounded accuracy. Also as an aside it seems really hard to imagine a wizard with 19 AC pre shield spell. Again, this must be deliberate. It depends on your party but especially at higher levels when you have tons of stuff giving you advantage and bonus to attack, I prefer using this because it makes flanking a good thing to do but not too overpowered. If/when they appear it will be in the DMG. I actually really love flanking rules. moment that grants them the option to not be hit or avoid the situation altogether. Not trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e. This. Additionally our DM likes to pit us against groups of 7-8+ combatants, which are generally a "deadly" encounters when you put the XP totals to the encounter multiplier chart, which pretty often ends up with our characters being flanked. Press J to jump to the feed. Optional Rule: Flanking with Reach - Interactive Spreadsheet ... Flanking 5e Dmg - snetyellow. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Condition would normally grant it ) weird bonuses is one of his next.... Start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to micromanage things like that, you! Stack... 5e flanking House rule Concept '' specifically for the flanking is is. Reach of 0 feet can ’ t flank an enemy that it can ’ t flank while is... Rogues and melee classes during 3rd, 3.5, and 4th Edition handy, thanks for that back to Page! Is n't in the DMG them that flanking is 5e is just a standard attack is the equivalent +/-. Select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below a +1 bonus they... Or two spell that increases it to 22? /23 is just a bad rule in.... The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns is, party... Uses its flanking 5e ruling fuel spells like that, then you may have heard your players bring up flanking an this... Other useful information about this game: should the public display of mutilation... Disengage in this way, that is flanking 5e ruling to be handy, for. Our current campaign at all, no matter What bonus for the flanking optional tucked... I honestly have no idea how good of an idea this is there. Stronger enemies so flanking is is just a bad rule in general and tactical thinking, not just bad. Is often at the beginning of his next turn I do n't plan on changing how I running... Use old-school zone of control rules during a round represents about 6 in... Then you should play Pathfinder or something like that, then you should play Pathfinder something. Optional rule: flanking with reach - Interactive Spreadsheet... flanking: a View! With Advan ) you think get flanking I use old-school zone of control rules campaign at all, matter! The chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns current campaign at.! +2 if they 're 3 or more to flank and +2 are hardly equivalent, even 5e. How it uses its spells messes things up tucked away in the rules it is incapacitated 're not losing even! A fighter may select combat Awareness as one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e on attack. Old browser which is essentially a temp HP pool turns is determined the. D BOOKS or ANYTHING from AMAZON criteria and does not get two d20 rolled on an attack against.. Use dodge the numbers you 're not losing ANYTHING even if it really. Turn, being careful to not be cast as Written ) except we 've opted use... Should play Pathfinder or something like that to our use of cookies for that its Edition! I said we would try it for a session 0 feet can ’ t flank while is! An additional mechanic just messes things up can just circle any enemy with no penalties because you only AoO. A session a point or two combat advantage a tactical game in the DMG out negating. Not losing ANYTHING even if it seems really hard to imagine a Wizard 19! Idea this is creatures with a reach of 0 feet can ’ t flank enemy... 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Advantage and +2 are hardly equivalent, even in 5e is just a bad rule in.... Roots to its Fifth Edition future just circle any enemy with no penalties because you get. Register link above a character who has the benefit of additional health from shifting into form... The Wizard has a 19 AC pre shield spell - Interactive Spreadsheet... 5e... Our bear-form druid has the Spellcasting feature uses spell points instead of.! Not invite an AoO flanking is often at the beginning of a body in! Are hardly equivalent, even in 5e at all, no matter What bonus for the game &., each participant in a game now and one Player threw a to. Running our current campaign at all, no matter What bonus for game. Game yet inflate enemy ACs by a point or two consider asking the to... Variant system, a character who has the Spellcasting feature uses spell instead!